I must admit to not having got hold of the new chaos codex yet so I'm only talking about my brief experience of chaos in 8th from a fairly narrow view point of Khorne from the index. I have heard that there are some errors in the book so maybe I'll hold off until another, hopefully correct, print run comes round.
If you have been playing chaos long enough you should remember when cult units were originally only allowed as elites (2nd, maybe 3rd edition). Then came the ability to unlock them as troops, usually through a named character or a Lord with the same mark. Most, if not all, players liked this as you could have entire armies of Berzerkers, Noise Marines, Death Guard or Thousand Sons. Now we're back to them being elites only (so far, come on Chapter Approved, who knows what 'alternatives' will be allowed?) and much wailing and gnashing of teeth can be heard throughout the land. Personally I don't think it's all doom and gloom. With the new detachments now used for army building we can still have cult heavy lists with the Vanguard detachment (3 to 6 elite choices).
I may be biased but I think berzerkers have come off ok. With vehicles being generally more durable and therefore able to get close to the enemy, assaults are more achievable and reliable, from a Khorne point of view at least, with an Icon of Wrath (re-roll assault distances). Chain axes at 1 point per model are a must have, never mind pistols. +1 strength gives berzerkers 2 attacks at S6 and 2 attacks at S5 (from the chainsword), hitting on 3s and fighting twice each fight phase (not just you're own) means berzerkers are back to being the pre-eminent assault troops in the game.
My current favourite set up is 8 berzerkers, 7 with chain axes and chainswords, champion with powerfist, Icon of Wrath. 3 of these and either Kharn or a Lord (points dependent) coming out of a Spartan should break most enemy forces in a turn or two. Throw in some support from Maulerfiends and/or Bloodslaughterers and watch the skulls fly. I realise some people frown on FW stuff but my gaming buddies and I like using them and have no problem facing them. To that end;
The vagaries of EBay.
Caveat emptor and all that. I saw an ad for a Kytan Ravager (Kytan daemon engine as was) on offer for £45, bargain. It turned up like this;
So it looks like a WIP series coming up, before I get to use him.
See ya all soon.
Always loved that model so looking forward to seeing it progress.
ReplyDeleteIf people complain about the Spartan why not just use a regular raider?
Transport capacity is 2 1/2 times that of a 'raider. Plus quad lascannons...
DeleteThe kitan is a superb model and I can't wait to see your version ... Regarding cults, I think they'll be back with the codex of the four legions dedicated ... It would be splendid view the Emperor's Children and the Worlds Eaters likes armies in their own right as Death Guard and the Thousand Sons! At the moment I am very pleased with how work "my" Bearers of the Word :-)
ReplyDeleteLooking forwards to facing it in a few weeks mate
ReplyDeleteSteve
I don't think I'll be using it at sanctuary Steve, too big a points sink.
DeleteI'm not sure what the errors are that are causing you to hold off on the Codex Iain? The Codex does feel rushed (IMO) and I can't help feeling that the author (Phil Kelly I believe?) doesn't quite understand the nuances of the Chaos Space Marine faction, but generally, with one or two exceptions, it's a pretty good effort.
ReplyDeleteOf course, these couple of exceptions ruin the Codex for me.
Cult Marines are no longer troop choices for Slaanesh and Khorne armies. I mention these two specifically because I would bet my soul that Plague Marines & Rubric Marines will be Troop choices when they get their Codex.
Noise Marines & Berserkers have been troop choices for Cult armies since the 2nd edition Codex was released (before that Force Organisation didn't exist), so that's pretty much since their inception. Now all of a sudden, they're Elite only. So if Cult Marines can no longer be taken as Troops, how can there be Cult armies?
Of course, this is easily circumvented by using the Vanguard Detachment, but really that isn't the point. Most Chaos Space Marine players have stuck with Chaos because of the established background and GW have simply torn it up.
I've read that some of the points values are wrong and already Gdub have produced an errata changing the points of some daemons.
DeleteThe errata is for the Chaos Index mate. It's just bringing the points cost for the Daemon troops in line with the CSM Codex.
DeleteThe new errata for the Codex fixes exactly that and it's good they do it.
DeleteI'm not sure why they didn't put it in the Codex in the first place. Was it an oversight, was it simply forgotten?
Or was it on purpose and now they bowed in to the cries of the Chaos player faction?
The Kytan is a pretty awesome Model. I haven't had a chance to get mine on the table yet in 8th, but hopefully soon.
ReplyDeleteIf you change ever change your mind and want to sell it im your man lol the legs are perfect to make a hell knight;-)
ReplyDeleteI hear ya, but I'm looking forward to it joining the Red Tide.
DeleteHello people! I'm glad to see things warming up as September approaches.
ReplyDeleteI picked up my copy of the Codex last Saturday and once again the scribes and fools of the Corpse Emperor had copied the same background information from previous editions to the new issue (this is how the Imperium actually works so I won't complain about that - haha).
A few minor tweaks here and there and we get the same abilities of the Index, plus Legion traits that more or less mirror those of our pious and simpleton brethren, this could be certainly improved. Having minor Daemons as Troops will be a blessing for those who rely on them for assaults, so the representative of the XVIIth will be happy with that. The Cursed Crozius is a mighty weapon too, the devotees of the Dark Prince get a wiggly waggly thing that you can stick into someone's faceplate to cause minor nuisance.
I'm really concerned about the Undivided aspect of Chaos being stealthily swept under the rug in favour of the major Gods. That the Alpha Legion can now take Marks, and indeed is actively encouraged to do so, proved to be a rather bothersome irritant in my digestion of the new state of things. Someone on the web is also gleefully recommending that they take a squad of infiltrating Berzerkers - Heresy! I'd rather use fully kitted Chosed to sweep with fire the area after a sneaky scouting move. Perhaps this is a spin off of the change in scale that is now upon us, we can either go down the route of fully dedicating ourselves to the resized paladins of the Gods or quietly fade into the Echoes of the Long War.
I'm so annoyed that I even painted a Novamarine in a fit of pique.
Cheers, Jose
Hi Jose, you're right! The codex is not what those who love the background would want, but it's better than having nothing. Basically, how long we waited to have the rules for the legions? There will always be people who will do things like the berserkers of the Alpha Legion infiltrating, matter for us unthinkable. I hope always in the codices also for the legions of Khorne, Slaanesh and it's about time they return playbles!
ReplyDeleteEvidently GW follows this blog and with the FAQ today resolved, at least temporarily, the question of berserkers and Noisemarines as troops. I admit I like a GW that works so...
ReplyDeleteLol, I'm sure GW have never heard of my blog.....they'd probably shut me down if they did ;-)
DeleteWords cannot express how happy I am to get my Noise Marines back....it was typical really, because I had only just thrown them into my bits box in a huff, as I thought I wouldn't be using them again.
At least I can feel some enthusiasm returning now that my beloved Noise Marines are returned to me :D
And why not? We are all, I think, looking forward to read about their exploits in your name :-)
ReplyDeleteI thought I wouldn't mind not having Chosen as Troops in my infantry-heavy Alpha Legion list, but oh boy how did I miss those extra command points for having to take the Patrol detachment in my latest games. :-/ CPs are one of the nicest things in the new edition.
ReplyDeleteI was unimpressed with the Command Points mechanism at first, but it has grown on me with each game I've played. There are still a few things I don't like about 8th but it seems to me that 8th is very much a work in progress that GW are more than happy to tweak to make the game better, which has to be a good thing.
DeleteNoise Marines suddenly losing their Troop option for Slaanesh Cult armies pretty much killed any interest I had in continuing with 8th. Yes I could take a Vanguard detachment and the reduced number of command points wouldn't have bothered me that much, but one of the things I don't like about 8th is all of the detachments. I really don't like the Vanguard, Spearhead and Outrider detachments simply because it promotes spam. I'll be sticking to Patrol, Battalion and Brigade for the foreseeable future because quite simply, it suits my vision of 40k.
Thankfully, Noise Marines as a troop option allows me to play the game the way I want to play, so my mojo is returning ;-)
Detachments = formations, kind of...
DeleteYeah I get that....but while there were some formations that were blatantly broken in 7th, they at least followed a theme and many of them were very flavourful.
DeleteThe detachments in 8th just seem open to abuse IMO....it's different strokes and all that, some like it, some don't.
I have to agree, I'll be sticking to the usual "HQ plus 2 Troops and whatever else" for the future. I just woulnd't feel right in any other way.
ReplyDelete