Greetings Sinners.
It's been ominously quiet on here just lately. I am (just like most people) still adjusting to 40k 8th edition and while there is plenty to like about this edition, the glaring issues that concerned me when GW previewed the game have come to pass and have left me feeling stuck between the proverbial solid objects.....
I'm sure it's no secret to any of you that I like my tournaments. Tournaments are great places to meet up with good friends (or make new ones), play exciting games of 40k against armies that might not be prevalent within your gaming circle and see exquisitely painted armies that can set the imagination alight. Add a few beers, some food and a weekend away from the daily stresses of life and I can't think of a better way to spend the weekend that doesn't involve Kate Beckinsale or Charlize Theron!
Alas, not all is rosy in the tournament garden, dark foreboding clouds have been casting a shadow over this garden of paradise for quite a while. It started in 6th with Flyers and Lords of War and continued into 7th edition with Psychic Deathstars and Formations.
I was under no illusions that 8th would continue down the same garden path. Flyers, Lords of War and Formations had taken root and established a firm footing within the tournament garden. Many people didn't like Formations in 7th, some armies didn't have access to them or they were so broken that certain armies used them almost exclusively. For me, just like most of GW's ideas, I thought they had real potential but they were too inconsistent across those armies that had access to them.
8th edition rolls around and GW, in their infinite wisdom, have decided to solve the 'Formation' issue by allowing all armies to build their own formations by calling them detachments.....it doesn't take a tactical genius to see what will happen......SPAM!
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| Sadly the type of Spam I'm talking about makes this seem tasty. |
I have only seen a couple of tournaments so far, but here's a sample of the armies coming to a tournament near you soon.....
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| Why use one Daemon Prince when you can take seven! |
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| Daemon Princes not your thing? Why not take 149 Razor Flocks. |
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| Craftworlders can get in on the act..... |
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| As well as their dark kin. |
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| In fact, everybody can get in on the act now. |
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| Could it get any more boring? |
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| Why yes! It would appear that it can :-( |
So that is the state of tournament play at the moment. It's still early days but I can't see any the army Codices improving the situation.
Hopefully tournament organisers will attempt to solve the 'detachment issue'.....I'm not optimistic that they will because the majority of events kowtow to the ETC, so while many have already banned Forge World they haven't even looked at reducing the the impact that detachments have on the game.
I have a doubles tournament booked for the end of the month with my good mate....and deluded brother, Steve. Normally I would be feverishly painting the latest unit that I want to include (which in this case, is a 5 man unit of Missile Launcher Havocs, a Herald of Slaanesh and the Masque) but I can't really be bothered touching my Chaos Marines because of the detachment issue and another thing that's concerning me.....scale creep.
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| Okay so we now have Primaris Marines, but why does their Dread have to be so big? Are they interring them stood up in the damn thing? |
I know we don't have Primaris Marines but I have this gnawing feeling that Chaos Space Marines are going to increase in size. We have already seen a pronounced scale creep. First we had the CSM Dark Vengeance Chosen, then the Deathwatch Marines were noticeably larger, next came the Thousand Sons and now we have the Death Guard. Here's a photo showing the size increase with some of these Marines.
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| As you can see, there is definitely some scale creep going on. |
Because of the state of tournament play and the scale creep, I've pretty much lost all incentive to paint a Chaos Marine until things become clearer.
So that's why things have become a little quiet around here lately.
I'm not sure on what to do next, Forge World is out because so far I haven't found an event that will allow them. It looks like my tournament days are coming to end so I need to find something to spark my imagination and keep me painting. Whatever it is, rest assured that I will continue to post.....it's just that my posts might become more erratic for the foreseeable future ;-)
Until next time......may Our Lady grant you her number!
Hello! I fully agree with you. That the cover of the upcoming Space Marine Codex of 8th Edition features a Primaris Marine is the proverbial writing on the wall. The days of the whole Space Marine range might as well be numbered as Forgeworld stays with its very profitable niche market of Mark III and Mark IV-sized troopers. The new sculpts make the old ones look puny in comparison, I think that there's some clever marketing behind this decision too. Clever, and malevolent, if there was every any intelligence in the Warp it's not of the kind variety, hehe.
ReplyDeleteI can't comment on spam as I don't attend tournaments, but I wouldn't relish playing against any of those lists with multiple hard-hitters in them. :-/
Cheers.
GW have been very clever with this. Marines are their biggest seller, so what do you do when most of their market have already bought Marines? They make bigger Marines lol.
DeleteI can live with the Chaos Marines getting slightly bigger (as long as it isn't MkX power armour with it's sigma knee-pads), it just leaves me stuck with what to do next. I don't want to build or paint anything until I know what they are doing.
I have 10 Noise Marines sat on my painting table screaming at me to paint them but thanks to the current tournament scene I can't see me touching them anytime soon.
Hopefully, something will happen to give me an incentive ;-)
I can only say that you are right, as The Scientist before me. I don't participate in tournaments, I prefer the friendly matches, but I think the majority of people who love the background experience the same aversion to certain ways of playing an army ... And they would not like to play the same way to have hope of winning.
ReplyDeleteAnd as for weight gain and size of new marines I have mixed feelings ... On one side I don't really mind, on the other hand I fear the consequences on the wallet ... I hope those mm donated by adapters are enough ...
I think I'll be focusing on the friendly games as well, at least for the time being.
DeleteI'll have to rattle Rob's cage and see if I can get him playing again ;-)
I have given up on 40k. Scale creep,cost and the dreadful boardgame-like unrealistic over simplified rules of 8th have totally put me off. The new fluff, and that around the Primaris marines is dreadful.
ReplyDeleteI am planning to play 30k, I'll strip some of my 40k models to repaint for 30k and shelve the rest.
Otherwise I'm sticking with historicals (SAGA and Bolt Action).
I can certainly understand why you would.
DeleteAs much as I don't like the direction that 40k has gone in, I feel too invested in the game to give up completely. I still enjoy the setting of 40k (even if I don't like the new background or understand the need to advance the storyline) and fortunately I have people I can still have an entertaining game against without resorting to spam.
More importantly, I have too many good friends that I only get to see by playing 40k and I would be all the poorer for not seeing them ;-)
I keep looking at Horus Heresy, even more so now that they've decided to stick with 7th edition rules. I've always wanted to paint a Night Lords army and I have a few Forge World models that I could actually get to use.
I'm still hopeful that some tournament organisers will look to limiting the 'detachment issue' (Battalion detachment with a Lord of War perhaps) or will look to the good old Highlander format to make the game more interesting.
As much as I would like to keep the complexity of 7th Edition and enjoy the awesome setting of the Heresy, I can't convince myself to set along this lonely path. The most enjoyable aspect of this not-quite-fictional setting is the part that helps you to engage with different people and swap some shared experiences, whether at the receiving end of a bucketload of dice (ouch!) or the more relaxed background controversies (as bitter as any religious heresy of the past, haha). I'll be painting and playing the odd game every now and then, but I have to admit that I was much more comfortable in this hobby when it was a sort of monthly endeavour with figures, rules and books dropping by at a more leisurely pace. Perhaps we shouldn't worry too much about what happens in the world around us. The Internet gives us a lot of opportunities to share our experiences with others but also foists upon us a sense of urgency that is really out of place in a hobby like ours. Cheers and enjoy the weekend.
DeleteWise words Jose.
DeleteI know what you mean about the breakneck speed at which GW release Codices. It's virtually impossible to keep up with them and GW have already stated that there will be 10 codices released by Christmas. I'll only be getting the CSM and Daemon dexes, so it won't bother me too much.
Although I'm disappointed with how tournaments are developing, there are other aspects to the hobby that I still enjoy. so I will readjust and focus on my campaign gaming instead of building and painting for the latest tournament.
I originally set this blog up to help motivate me to continue painting when 6th edition dropped and I didn't like the tournament scene. So the blog will once again be used as another tool to do just that!
Thank you for your thoughts people, it is very Carthartic discussing this and it is helping me to refocus my thoughts on my version of the hobby.
Have a great weekend people!
30k is easier to start than you think. There are skirmish and patrol size versions like Zone Mortalis. 500 points is adequate to play.
ReplyDeleteI think many of the changes are good, but they stripped out stuff that motivated tactical play like facings and didn't replace it.
I thought I was super committed too, after 30 years of play, but now I've decided not to follow 40k anymore I find it oddly liberating.
Perhaps you could persuade some friends to play 30k, Shadow War or the new Epic.
Rob (regular gaming buddy) and I have been working through our own version of a Path to Glory campaign which is a sort of 40k/Necromunda cross over which we have found to be perfect for our 40k needs.
DeleteSo perhaps it's time to refocus my efforts on that so that I can post up some reports on it and share our tales of derring do!
I think I need to look more closely at the 30k universe and see if it has what I need.
40K has got ridiculously expensive, the constant churn of rulebooks is dispiriting too. I was SOOOO happy with Traitor Legions, the chaos Index is awful and now I will have to buy another Chaos Codex... Not doing it.
DeleteBesides I found I had the makings of a 30K army knocking around. Old style Rhinos and Predators (yes the lead sponson ones!) are on the table to be stripped and repainted. I just bought some plastic MkIII marines from the Prospero box on Ebay (averaging £12 per 10).
The red books make it easy to start 30K without buying the big black books (some of which are out of date anyhow, and which can be pirated as PDfs if you want the fluff.
Hopefully the new FW 7th Ed rules book will have missions and skirmish/ZM/campaign variants.
Historicals have also been an eye opener. SAGA is a great game, and my whole 28mm Viking army of 44 guys cost £22...
The tournament lists don't surprise me. It saddens me, but I knew it would happen; it does every edition. The only difference now is what is done to abuse the game, not that they have. This has forever been the cycle, which is easy to see as the casual observer.
ReplyDeleteI do not have the opportunity to participate in any large scale tournaments, but I simply wouldn't even if I did. I get the comradary completely, but I'd have a hard time feeling that would justify days of gaming where I'd rather just bang my dick in a door. I'd love to be a better player, but not at those costs.
Yeah, I've been around long enough to know what would happen, so it shouldn't surprise me either.
DeleteI think what has disappointed me more than anything is that the game has shifted even further away from what I want. The way that an army can be built now is pretty much bring what you want. Force Organisation has gone only to be replaced by detachments that let you bring 5 HQ's, 6 Heavy Support etc. This doesn't appeal to my 'Role Playing meets strategy to create a story' mindset.
Admittedly 40k hasn't been like that since 2nd edition really, but it has always been possible to go to tournaments with that particular mind-set and still get something from the game. I'm not sure that it will be in 8th without some form of comp.
One thing I have found though, is that no matter what edition is played, there are always some games where you meet a player who enjoys the game for the same reasons I do.
I will find out at the end of the month when I team up with my brother in sin and I'll let you know :-)
Maybe it's not the tournaments that are the problem, but the ones you choose to attend? I know at the big events they have more narrative formats, but of course those are overshadowed by the main event. Where I play, I run a narrative format that's more story than anything. I have to approve every list as it's the only sure way to avoid cheese.
DeleteIt may not be an option, but if you're into more narrative stuff then it sounds like you're going to the wrong events is all. *shrugs*
Unfortunately those types of events are few and far between in the UK. We do have them over here but they're definitely in the minority.
DeleteIn the UK an event is usually an ETC clone and it's very rare that an event will try to cater to two or more styles of game play.
I do think that people will get bored of the no-holds-barred tournaments very quickly though and that Tournament Organisers will look towards some form of comp sooner rather than later.
I just feel like I'm in limbo until they do ;-)
Well, I don't have an axe to grind or a pet hate against anyone in particular, but those of you who have been using the narrative setting of the Warhammer universe as a sort of 'language' to communicate with other people through time will have surely noticed that from the turn of the decade the driving force of the hobby seems to have shifted from individual collectors who showpieced their figures in blogs or wrote mor or less inspired stories echoing the background, towards tournament organisers and professional painters who eke out a living out of it. The Internet (and everything in general) is nowadays so filled with advertisements that one struggles to find meaningful information in places, so this is not a trend exclusive to the 40K universe. With this in mind, it is natural to expect some of the players to feel left in the sidelines, overtaken by the noisy bandwagon of fanfare, forced smiles and commercial jingles.
ReplyDeleteThere are certainly plenty of blogs like that, many of them started out as a great place to read something interesting but sadly the adverts take over and the articles become nothing but clickbait to add pennies to their coffers.
DeleteFortunately, there's no danger of that here.
I don't feel left on the sidelines though. This post wasn't meant as a moan about the state of the game (even if it did lean that way), it was just me trying to explain why my posts have slowed down a little. Until I know what will happen with Chaos Marines and until I have a tournament to attend, I'm struggling to want to paint anything CSM.
Fortunately, after to chatting with my brothers in arms on here, I've decided to build and paint up a Havoc squad next week, so I should have something to post soon ;-)
Equip them with autocannons! The universally derided heavy weapon in the game is now rather good. Plus it feels suitably low-tech for a group of renegades who have to scavenge their weapons from here and there. :-D
ReplyDeleteOnce again I am in full agreement with The Scientist: AUTOCANNON! Nothing else shouts "Chaos" more :-)!
Delete(P.S. I understand that the missile launcher ensures better performances but ...)
LOL, stop tempting me with 'rule of cool', I'm trying to build a list that will give me some chance against all those Storm Ravens we're are sure to face ;-)
DeleteThere is something that shouts Chaos better though.....Blastmaster Havocs....maybe one day eh?
I have some Autocannons Havocs but I'm of the opinion that the missile launcher is much more versatile which is more important in a 1000pt army than the usual larger game ;-)
ReplyDelete